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Tabyk
Posted on Saturday, July 19, 2003 - 02:48 am:   

Hello,

I am building a website for an Intro to HTML course, and wanted to include something in Japanese on it (since the site will eventually feature my own fanfics and such). I'm hoping to get an actual kanji translation (as opposed to romaji) to make it look nice...

"Welcome to my website. I do not actually speak Japanese, but I wanted to put something here for fun."

Can anyone help? An ideal solution would be if someone could type in the Kanji into a MS Word document and just e-mail it to me, in which I can then convert to HTML document and go steal the special &#xxxxx; character codes I need.

~ Tabyk
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Mr. Anonymous
Posted on Saturday, July 19, 2003 - 03:23 am:   

ようこそ、私のHPへ。実は日本語が話せませんが、ただ面白いことを書きたかっただけで す。どうぞ、ご覧下さい。

I added something like "please have a look". it's the last sentence... hope you like it!
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Mr. Anonymous
Posted on Saturday, July 19, 2003 - 03:26 am:   

Maybe you could say
実は日本語が分かりませんが、
instead of
実は日本語が話せませんが、
but it's pretty much the same thing.
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Tabyk
Posted on Saturday, July 19, 2003 - 05:36 am:   

Thanks for the translation, Mr. Anonymous, but my browser is only showing random characters and not kanji (I'm probably missing a plug-in or something). Is there any possibility that you could e-mail me a MS Word document with the kanji in it (tabyk@yahoo.com), or alternatively, do you have any suggestions on how I might be able to view the kanji written here (I'm on a Windows 2000 computer using IE 6.0).

Thanks once again! *smile*

~ Tabyk
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Tabyk
Posted on Saturday, July 19, 2003 - 05:50 am:   

Okay, and one other question now that I thought about it (sorry). I'm planning on using tables or something to display the kanji in a right-to-left and top-to-bottom column style (standard Japanese). Are there any particular rules on when to break for a new line, or can I just go down as far as I want before starting the next column?

An example (and a horrid one at that) of what I'm thinking of doing can be found at: www.tabyk.net/tmp/test2.html (this in a Chinese transliteration, not Japanese).
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Mr. Anonymous
Posted on Saturday, July 19, 2003 - 11:34 am:   

ようこそ私のペ|ジへ
実は日本語が話せませんが
ただ面白いことを書きたかっただけです
どうぞご覧下さい

This is a good separation w/out punctuation because you won't be able to have properly-justified periods and commas.

to view japanese: Make sure you have a japanese font installed. Win2k should. Esp. if you've got MS Word. Anyway... Then, when you see this page, right-click. You should see "encoding". Find "Japanese Shift-JIS" under 'other" and you should be able to see the correct characters (mind you, not everything is written in kanji in japanese).
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Mr. Anonymous
Posted on Saturday, July 19, 2003 - 11:37 am:   

THE LAST MESSAGE WAS BUNK. I MEANT TO PUSH "Preview/Post" and instead hit... "post"........ blah....


ようこそ私のペ|ジへ
実は日本語が話せませんが
ただ面白いことを書きたかっただけです
どうぞ御覧下さい

This is a good separation w/out punctuation because you won't be able to have properly-justified periods and commas.

to view japanese: Make sure you have a japanese font installed. Win2k should. Esp. if you've got MS Word. Anyway... Then, when you see this page, right-click. You should see "encoding". Find "Japanese Shift-JIS" under 'other" and you should be able to see the correct characters (mind you, not everything is written in kanji in japanese).
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Tabyk
Posted on Saturday, July 19, 2003 - 06:36 pm:   

That worked perfectly. Thank you once again. *smile*

~ Tabyk
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Tabyk
Posted on Saturday, July 19, 2003 - 10:16 pm:   

Er... hello. One last thing (I hope).

I have a test page up at: www.tabyk.net/tmp/test3.html

Does that look correct? Also, the third line is really long, is there no way I can break it in half?

Once again, THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!! *smile*

~ Tabyk
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Tabyk
Posted on Saturday, July 19, 2003 - 10:27 pm:   

A general question for those here who might be knowledgable in HTML... which "charset" should I use for this page?

iso-2022-jp or shift_jis ?
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Mr. Anonymous
Posted on Sunday, July 20, 2003 - 04:58 am:   

shift-jis is fine, however, if you are using the unicode-escape-character-numbers (or whatever, i can't remember the correct words right now) then it shouldn't matter, i don't think......hehe.

here's a new partitioning:
ようこそ私のペ|ジへ
実は日本語が話せませんが
ただ面白いことを書きたかった
だけです
どうぞ御覧下さい


Only thing is that you might want to make the cellpadding 0 so that the lines are closer together!
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Tabyk
Posted on Sunday, July 20, 2003 - 05:32 am:   

Thanks for the new partitioning, it helps a lot.

As for the &#xxxxx; unicode escape characters, I found out the hard way that the charset declairation was VERY important. Using "shift_jis" it looks fine, but if I use "iso-2022-jp" half of the characters don't even show up.

And I fixed the spacing on my finals project page. *smile*

Once again thank you so much for your assistance and efforts.

~ Tabyk
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Mr. Anonymous
Posted on Sunday, July 20, 2003 - 06:57 am:   

Hmm. That goes against all that "Unicode" stands for!!! Why would you have to use a specific code-page when you are using the unicode!? See what I mean? Have you tried setting the "charset" to "unicode" or "utf-8"?

Also, i'd like to see your page! Sounds interesting... hehe!
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Mr. Anonymous
Posted on Sunday, July 20, 2003 - 07:06 am:   

Say, i just checked out the site... Would you like me to translate stuff for you? I don't really need payment cuz i am just bored... hahaha.
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Tabyk
Posted on Sunday, July 20, 2003 - 04:35 pm:   

Thanks for the offer Mr. Anonymous. *smile*

The first page (with your translation) of my HTML final can now be viewed at: www.tabyk.net/edu

*laugh* I talked my teacher into allowing me to do a very basic re-write of my current homepage (www.tabyk.net) as my final. Talk about lucky...

Any translation of my current homepage would be wasted effort I think, as I am planning on re-writing the entire site using what I have learned in class, which is a lot, over the next 2-3 weeks (or longer). However, I have always wanted to have the left-side navigation bar in multiple languages (Chinese/English/Japanese) if you are interested? Not the current one, but I do have a working draft of what will be listed on the new one.

~ Tabyk
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info
Posted on Sunday, July 20, 2003 - 10:42 pm:   

Unicode is fine because it allows to put all the languages (English, French, Japanese, Chinese, Korean, Russian, Arabic, Hindu etc.) on the same document, but due to the difficulty to implement it (you need super polyglots for the program test), not all the browsers nor search engines support Unicode. So we have decided to use Shift_JIS character setting for our Japanese forum. Though EUC_J is also popular in Japan, its usage is rather limited in Unix world (in short, only on the server side) while Shift_JIS is widely used not only by Unix machine but also Windows and Macintosh.
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Mr. Anonymous
Posted on Monday, July 21, 2003 - 12:07 am:   

That's true, info-san! I was alluding to the unicode-escape-characters that s/he was using, though...

Sure, i'd be interested in helpin make chinese/japanese menues(^o^) that'd be a fun project.
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Tabyk
Posted on Thursday, July 24, 2003 - 06:55 am:   

Sorry for the long delay in writing back, but my HTML class isn't the only final I'm current working on. *sigh*

Okay, following is the tentative categories for the menu of my new website build:

updates
journal
guest book
e-mail

fanfics
series
shorts
originals
ideas

poetry
music
photos
miscellaneous
links

~ Tabyk
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Tabyk
Posted on Thursday, July 24, 2003 - 06:59 am:   

And this question is more for everyone in general then just Mr. Anonymous...

Is there a way in (X)HTML to direct a browser to a particular menu document based upon their prefered language settings, or am I going to need to use a CGI / PERL / JavaScript / Etc. program to do this? If so, does anyone know where I could find a simple one online (in a quick-n-easy online JavaScript archive or something) ?

Thanks!!!

~Tabyk
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Mr. Anonymous
Posted on Thursday, July 24, 2003 - 06:05 pm:   

You're gonna probably have to use JavaScript... That would be the easiest. Just need to set a cookie with their preferences. Then, load the cookie, get the language and set their browser movin! ahhahaha.

updates 更新履歴
journal 日記 or 日記帳
guest book 掲示板 or ゲストブック
e-mail eメール or メール or お便り
fanfics FanFic
series シリーズ or 双書
shorts 短編
originals オリジナル
ideas 期待の新作
poetry 詩
music 音楽
photos フォト or 写真
miscellaneous 種々雑多なこと
links リンク
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Tabyk
Posted on Friday, July 25, 2003 - 06:32 am:   

Hello. *wave*

Thank you for the translations for the menu, but are there really any differences between the various options (you list 2, or even 3, for some of them) ?

Also, am I correct in assuming that these are Japanese and not Chinese (regardless of what MS Word/Frontpage is trying tell me)?

Thanks for your help. I'll try to have a test setup of the new menu up in a couple days so everyone can take a peek at it and doublecheck me.

~Tabyk
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Mr. Anonymous
Posted on Friday, July 25, 2003 - 05:58 pm:   

Yeah, there's not really a difference... And, yeah, these are *Japanese* not *Chinese*... Leave it to Microsoft... hahaha. But, it depends on what your browser setting was... Should be Shift-JIS for the viewing of this thread
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Tabyk
Posted on Saturday, July 26, 2003 - 04:28 am:   

Yay! All of my final projects are finished and I can really sit down to work on my homepage.

Working on the left-side menu bar right now, and ran into space issue. Well, okay, it's not really an issue, but I'm just being picky over details...

Using a 130 pixel wide left-side navigation frame the Japanese characters for "miscellaneous" still wrap to the next line. I would like to avoid this if possible. Would "extras" or "junk" (or something similiar) be shorter?

~ Tabyk
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Mr. Anonymous
Posted on Saturday, July 26, 2003 - 09:13 am:   

maybe その他 would work? it means "other"
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Tabyk
Posted on Sunday, July 27, 2003 - 03:12 am:   

Okay, school finals are done, which means personal projects are a go! *smile*

I have the skeleton setup of my new site up now, but haven't figured out how to test the javascript language redirector. It keeps sending me to the english menu regardless of what I set my language preferences in IE to. Does it do the same thing to you?

http://www.tabyk.net

The actual japanese navigation bar can be found at...

http://www.tabyk.net/navbar/japan.html
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Mr. Anonymous
Posted on Sunday, July 27, 2003 - 09:52 pm:   

<script language="JavaScript">
// <!-- Begin
if (navigator.appName == 'Netscape')
var language = navigator.language;
else
var language = navigator.browserLanguage;

/*-------------------------------------------------------------
Netscape instructions:
In Netscape, find the language you want to redirect by going to

Edit Menu --> Preferences...

Then click the '+' box next to 'Navigator' and click 'Languages'
Click 'Add' then find the languages you want and add them below.

---------------------------------------------------------------

Microsoft Internet Explorer instructions:
In MSIE, find the language you want to redirect by going to

Tools Menu --> Internet Options...

Then click the 'Languages' button near the bottom of the page.
Click 'Add' then find the languages you want and add them below.

-------------------------------------------------------------*/

if (language.indexOf('en') > -1)
alert('English Version');
else if (language.indexOf('ja') > -1)
alert('日本語版');
else if (language.indexOf('zh') > -1)
alert('中文版');
else
alert('既定値');
// End -->
</script>

-------------------------------------------------
SOURCE: http://javascript.internet.com/user-details/language.html
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Mr. Anonymous
Posted on Sunday, July 27, 2003 - 11:00 pm:   

 
<script>
//<!-- Begin
var strLanguage = navigator.userLanguage.substr(0,2);
var strCountry = navigator.userLanguage.substr(3,2);

switch (strLanguage)
{
case "af":
document.write("Afrikaans");
break;
case "ar":
{
switch (navigator.userLanguage.substr(3,2))
{
case "ae":
document.write("Arabic - United Arab Emirates");
break;
case "bh":
document.write("Arabic - Bahrain");
break;
case "eg":
document.write("Arabic - Egypt");
break;
case "dz":
document.write("Arabic - Algeria");
break;
case "iq":
document.write("Arabic - Iraq");
break;
case "jo":
document.write("Arabic - Jordan");
break;
case "kw":
document.write("Arabic - Kuwait");
break;
case "lb":
document.write("Arabic - Lebanon");
break;
case "ly":
document.write("Arabic - Libya");
break;
case "ma":
document.write("Arabic - Morocco");
break;
case "om":
document.write("Arabic - Oman");
break;
case "qa":
document.write("Arabic - Qatar");
break;
case "sa":
document.write("Arabic - Saudi Arabia");
break;
case "sy":
document.write("Arabic - Syria");
break;
case "tn":
document.write("Arabic - Tunisia");
break;
case "ye":
document.write("Arabic - Yemen");
break;
default:
document.write("Arabic");
break;

break;
}
case "be":
document.write("Belarusian");
break;
case "bg":
document.write("Bulgarian");
break;
case "ca":
document.write("Catalan");
break;
case "cs":
document.write("Czech");
break;
case "da":
document.write("Danish");
break;
case "de":
{
switch (strCountry)
{
case "at":
document.write("German - Austria");
break;
case "ch":
document.write("German - Switzerland");
break;
case "li":
document.write("German - Liechtenstein");
break;
case "lu":
document.write("German - Luxembourg");
break;
default:
document.write("German - Germany");
break;
}
break;
}
case "el":
document.write("Greek - Greece");
case "en":
{
switch (navigator.userLanguage.substr(3,2))
{
case "us":
document.write("English - United States");
break;
case "au":
document.write("English - Austrailia");
break;
case "bz":
document.write("English - Belize");
break;
case "ca":
document.write("English - Canada");
break;
case "gb":
document.write("English - Great Britain");
break;
case "ie":
document.write("English - Ireland");
break;
case "jm":
document.write("English - Jamaica");
break;
case "nz":
document.write("English - New Zealand");
break;
case "tt":
document.write("English - Trinidad");
break;
case "za":
document.write("English - South Africa");
break;
default:
document.write("English");
break;
}
break;
}
case "es":
{
switch (navigator.userLanguage.substr(3,2))
{
case "ar":
document.write("Spanish - Argentina");
break;
case "bo":
document.write("Spanish - Bolivia");
break;
case "cl":
document.write("Spanish - Chile");
break;
case "co":
document.write("Spanish - Colombia");
break;
case "cr":
document.write("Spanish - Costa Rica");
break;
case "do":
document.write("Spanish - Dominican Republic");
break;
case "ec":
document.write("Spanish - Ecuador");
break;
case "gt":
document.write("Spanish - Guatemala");
break;
case "hn":
document.write("Spanish - Honduras");
break;
case "mx":
document.write("Spanish - Mexico");
break;
case "ni":
document.write("Spanish - Nicaragua");
break;
case "pa":
document.write("Spanish - Panama");
break;
case "pe":
document.write("Spanish - Peru");
break;
case "pr":
document.write("Spanish - Puerto Rico");
break;
case "py":
document.write("Spanish - Paraguay");
break;
case "sv":
document.write("Spanish - El Salvador");
break;
case "uy":
document.write("Spanish - Uruguay");
break;
case "ve":
document.write("Spanish - Venezuela");
break;
default:
document.write("Spanish - Spain");
break;
}
break;
}
case "et":
document.write("Estonian");
break;
case "eu":
document.write("Basque");
break;
case "fa":
document.write("Farsi");
break;
case "fi":
document.write("Finnish");
break;
case "fo":
document.write("Faeroese");
break;
case "fr":
{
switch (navigator.userLanguage.substr(3,2))
{
case "be":
document.write("French - Belgium");
break;
case "ca":
document.write("French - Canada");
break;
case "ch":
document.write("French - Switzerland");
break;
case "ca":
document.write("French - Luxembourg");
break;
default:
document.write("French - France");
break;
}
break;
}
case "gd":
{
switch (navigator.userLanguage.substr(3,2))
{
case "ie":
document.write("Gaelic - Ireland");
break;
default:
document.write("Gaelic - Scotland");
break;
}
break;
}
case "he":
document.write("Hebrew");
break;
case "hi":
document.write("Hindi");
break;
case "hr":
document.write("Croatian");
break;
case "hu":
document.write("Hungarian");
break;
case "in":
document.write("Indonesian");
break;
case "is":
document.write("Icelandic");
break;
case "he":
document.write("Hebrew");
break;
case "it":
{
switch (navigator.userLanguage.substr(3,2))
{
case "ch":
document.write("Italian - Switzerland");
break;
default:
document.write("Italian - Italy");
break;
}
break;
}
case "ja":
document.write("<span>日本語 - 日本</span>");
break;
case "ji":
document.write("Yiddish");
break;
case "ko":
document.write("<span>朝鮮語 - 朝鮮(大韓民国・朝鮮民主主義人民共和国)</span>");
break;
case "lt":
document.write("Lithuanian - Lithuania");
break;
case "lv":
document.write("Latvian");
break;
case "mk":
document.write("Macedonian - Macedonia");
break;
case "ms":
document.write("Malaysian - Malaysia");
break;
case "mt":
document.write("Maltese - Malta");
break;
case "nl":
{
switch (navigator.userLanguage.substr(3,2))
{
case "be":
document.write("Dutch - Belgium");
break;
default:
document.write("Dutch - Netherlands");
break;
}
break;
}
case "pl":
document.write("Polish - Poland");
break;
case "pt":
{
switch (navigator.userLanguage.substr(3,2))
{
case "br":
document.write("Portuguese - Brazil");
break;
default:
document.write("Portuguese - Portugual");
break;
}
break;
}
case "rm":
document.write("Rhaeto-Romanic - Romania");
break;
case "ro":
document.write("Romanian - Romania");
break;
case "ru":
document.write("Russian - Russia");
break;
case "sb":
document.write("Sorbian");
break;
case "sk":
document.write("Slovak");
break;
case "sl":
document.write("Slovenian");
break;
case "sq":
document.write("Albanian - Albania");
break;
case "sr":
document.write("Serbian - Serbia");
break;
case "sv":
{
switch (navigator.userLanguage.substr(3,2))
{
case "fi":
document.write("Swedish - Finland");
break;
default:
document.write("Swedish - Sweden");
break;
}
break;
}
case "sx":
document.write("Sutu");
break;
case "sz":
document.write("Sami");
break;
case "th":
document.write("Thai - Thailand");
break;
case "tn":
document.write("Tswana");
break;
case "tr":
document.write("Turkish - Turkey");
break;
case "ts":
document.write("Tsonga");
break;
case "uk":
document.write("Ukrainian");
break;
case "th":
document.write("Thai - Thailand");
break;
case "ur":
document.write("Urdu");
break;
case "ve":
document.write("Venda");
break;
case "vi":
document.write("Vietnamese - Vietnam");
break;
case "xh":
document.write("Xhosa");
break;
case "zh":
{
switch (navigator.userLanguage.substr(3,2))
{
case "cn":
document.write("<span>中文 - 中華人民共和国</span>");
break;
case "hk":
document.write("<span>中文 - 香港</span>");
break;
case "sg":
document.write("<span>中文 - Singapore</span>");
break;
case "tw":
document.write("<span>中文 - 台湾</span>");
break;
default:
document.write("<span>中文 - 中華人民共和国</span>");
break;
}
break;
}
case "zu":
document.write("Zulu");
break;
default:
document.write("Language could not be determined.");
break;
}
// End -->
</script>
}

-------------------------------------------------
I adapted: http://javascript.internet.com/user-details/user-language-and-country.html

It's more human-readable, and i changed some of the formats...
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Mr. Anonymous
Posted on Sunday, July 27, 2003 - 11:02 pm:   

You can mix those two to come up with a cross-browser version...

And, woa, i just noticed that none of the "span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:'MS UI Gothic'" stuff came up...
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Tabyk
Posted on Monday, July 28, 2003 - 02:24 am:   

Thanks Mr. Anonymous, I'm already using the first of the two methods that you had found (had found it earlier myself). At this time my script is setup as:

<script>
if (navigator.appName == 'Netscape')
var language = navigator.language;
else
var language = navigator.browserLanguage;
if (language.indexOf('jp') > -1)
document.location.href = 'japan.html';
else if (language.indexOf('he') > -1)
document.location.href = 'hebrew.html';
else document.location.href = 'english.html';
</script>

...so it should be checking for Japanese and Hebrew first, before defaulting to English. I've already added Japanese to the language settings on my browser, and even placed it ahead of English for preference order, but my browser itself still identifies itself as "en-us" regardless. Is it doing to same thing to you?

~ Tabyk
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Mr. Anonymous
Posted on Monday, July 28, 2003 - 09:14 am:   

No, i get japanese... But, that's cuz i'm using japanese broser......... Hmm... Well, i wrote another script that does cookie-preference... Maybe you wanna do that one instead? I could put it here, or email, or something.
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Mr. Anonymous
Posted on Monday, July 28, 2003 - 09:17 am:   

By the way, i forgot to mention that with "guest book 掲示板 or ゲストブック", the former is more of a "bbs"... the later is lit. trans. of "guest book".
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Mr. Anonymous
Posted on Monday, July 28, 2003 - 09:19 am:   

I wonder if there is a way that they could delete those two posts of mine, then... they're kinda lengthy and don't really go with this website, if you know what i mean...
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Tabyk
Posted on Tuesday, July 29, 2003 - 03:22 am:   

Thanks for taking a look at it for me. I'll probably switch from the "BBS-ish" to the "Guest Book" translation on my next update. As for the language selection, I'm going to keep what I have so far since it appears to be working (for the most part).

I think, for now, that I am finished with the Japanese translation though. Now that I have the greeting and menu, I'm already starting to work on other languages (Chinese & Hebrew). Thanks once again (and again... and AGAIN) for all you help with this project. *smile*

~ Tabyk

Oh, and just in case your interested, I finally got around to posting some of the pictures I took during my vacation trip to Japan and Singapore. Maybe you've already been to some of the places?
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Mr. Anonymous
Posted on Tuesday, July 29, 2003 - 05:24 am:   

BTW, i meant that in my tests i was getting properly "japanese", but, on your page, i get english...
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Anonymous
Posted on Thursday, July 31, 2003 - 12:03 pm:   

please help me, i need lucky13 and Ally in kanji please... thank u
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Matjlav
Posted on Thursday, July 31, 2003 - 12:23 pm:   

Well, lucky13 and ally...

Stuff

From top to bottom:
Lucky13 in Katakana, but you can't write it with Kanji. It's a name-like way of writing it.
Lucky 13 in kanji, but it's more of a noun than a name.
Ally as in friend in kanji.
Ally as a name in Katakana, this is the usual way of writing it.
But, if you really MUST have it in kanji, use the bottom way of writing ally.

どう致しまして! You're welcome!
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Anonymous
Posted on Thursday, July 31, 2003 - 03:01 pm:   

thank u sooo much i forgot 1 though can u write Helga in kanji, for my moms b-day.
thanks
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Matjlav
Posted on Thursday, July 31, 2003 - 03:56 pm:   

Helga in Japanese:

Helga in Japanese

The top way is the normal way, but, again, if you must have it in kanji, you could write it in the bottom way.

どう致しまして! You're welcome!
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Matjlav
Posted on Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 02:39 pm:   

oh, and sorry, Mr. Anonymous... but I can't help butting in...

I was just thinking... shouldn't ようこそ私のペ|ジへ be something like いらっしゃいませ私のペ|ジへ? (different welcome), or changing the welcome to おこしやす or おいでやす, since those are what's used in shops, etc.? Of course, I may be wrong...
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Mr. Anonymous
Posted on Sunday, August 03, 2003 - 04:14 am:   

No, you use ようこそ...

いらっしゃいませ is more for a store-owner talking to お客様 (o-kyaku-sama), etc.

Reason:
You use ようこそ when welcoming someone's vist. People "visit" your page, therefore you use ようこそ.

That make sense? Here's an explanation in japanese that might be better.

ようこそ:〈感〉相手の訪問を歓迎する語。
youkoso: (kan) aite no houmon wo kangei suru go.
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Matjlav
Posted on Sunday, August 03, 2003 - 02:01 pm:   

ok. And, a little off topic, but, why do some questions end in の? E.g. 独り戦うの? (hitori tatakau no?) Will you fight alone?
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Mr. Anonymous
Posted on Monday, August 04, 2003 - 07:03 pm:   

It's a contraction...

一人・独りで戦うの?
→独り・一人で戦うのですか。

〜の? is short for 〜のですか。
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Matjlav
Posted on Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 11:32 am:   

er... what? sorry, don't understand what the ですか at the end is for... could you just break down the sentence and describe it?
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Mr. Anonymous
Posted on Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 11:57 am:   

if you want to make a plain verb more formal, you must add の and です to the end.

今夜のパーティーへ行きますか
今夜のパーティーへ行くのですか

独りで戦いますか
独りで戦うのですか

親の家へ行きます
親の家へ行くのです
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Mr. Anonymous
Posted on Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 12:01 pm:   

by more formal, i kinda mean more polite, or whatever...
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Matjlav
Posted on Wednesday, August 06, 2003 - 09:22 am:   

so, is the "の" just to add formality or something?
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Mr. Anonymous
Posted on Wednesday, August 06, 2003 - 07:45 pm:   

well... you can't say 行くです, you have to say 行くのです if you want to add "です" to a verb.........
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Matjlav
Posted on Thursday, August 07, 2003 - 10:03 am:   

but i'm still not really understanding what exactly it is used for.
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Matjlav
Posted on Thursday, August 07, 2003 - 10:41 am:   

and what would be the difference between 言います and 言うのです?

What I'm saying, is in what sentences is の used?
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Mr. Anonymous
Posted on Thursday, August 07, 2003 - 12:15 pm:   

They both mean the same thing, but 〜のです(か) is more formal...
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Matjlav
Posted on Thursday, August 07, 2003 - 01:29 pm:   

What I'm saying, is what's the difference between どこへ行くの? and どこへ行く?? Or どうしてここいるの? and どうしてここいる??

I understand that 〜の is a contraction of 〜のですか, but I still don't understand what exactly it's used for...

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Mr. Anonymous
Posted on Friday, August 08, 2003 - 05:58 am:   

Well, it's used for the same thing that のですか is used for, but contracted. Like you just said.

THERE IS NOOOO DIFFERENCE IN MEEEANNINNNNGGGGGGG...
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Matjlav45
Posted on Friday, August 08, 2003 - 11:57 am:   

so, again, does the の just add formality, since that's what のですか is used for? Or is のですか used for something else other than that?
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Matjlav
Posted on Friday, August 08, 2003 - 03:16 pm:   

and a side question:

is there anyway to tell the difference between "hu" and "fu"?
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info
Posted on Friday, August 08, 2003 - 10:50 pm:   

Fu is the old Japanese pronunciation of ふ
When foreigners met Japanese in Edo period, they said really Fujisan 富士山 and not Hujisan as the current Japanese pronunciation. By the same token, all the western maps until 19th century, mentioned Nifon instead of Nihon 日本 for Japan.
Kind regards,
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Mr. Anonymous
Posted on Saturday, August 09, 2003 - 05:13 am:   

Okay, maybe i see what you're saying... Sorry it took so long, and if it's not, sorry that it's taking so long...

Verbs need to have の before です(か); you cannot write 行くです, you must write 行くのです, to mean "i/blah am/blah going".
Adjectives/adverbs do not need の; you can write 綺麗です to mean "it's beautiful", or 楽しいです to mean "it's fun".

That make sense? That answer the question?
-------------------------------------------------

Actually, ふ (fu/hu) is said more on the "fu" side, still. It is not all-out "foo" but, it is not all-out "who", either; it is a mix.

There used to be more sounds in japanese, that carried the "f" side... I only have sites in japanese explaining that, though........

Also, the more-formal pronounciation of 日本 (nihon) is Nippon... I did not know that *all* western maps were labeled with "nihon"... Why would they not have been "nippon"? All elderly japanese i speak with say "nippon". I was under the impression that the "new" way of saying it was "nihon"..........

Thanks for the info, info!
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Matjlav
Posted on Saturday, August 09, 2003 - 10:28 am:   

so, yet again, does the の just add formality or something, since that's what のですか is used for??
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info
Posted on Saturday, August 09, 2003 - 12:49 pm:   

The initial consonant value of は行 was 'p' so 日本 should be pronounced nipon or nippon during Nara and may be Heian period. During middle ages, this consonant had transformed to 'f' so the pronunciation of 日本 became nifon but some provinces kept the 'p' consonant and continued to say nippon. Finally 'f' consonant disappeared at the end of Edo period and 日本 became nihon.
There are 2 factors which complicates our study.
1) the old Japanese didn't have Dakuon and Handakuon notations so は ば ぱ were written all as は
2) The contemporary Japanese has originated from Edo dialect which had been brought by Tokugawa family from Nagoya province, so nothing to do with the original Japanese spoken at Nara province.
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Mr. Anonymous
Posted on Saturday, August 09, 2003 - 06:22 pm:   

Good points! Also, going from manyougana (万葉仮名) is quite hard..........
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Mr. Anonymous
Posted on Saturday, August 09, 2003 - 06:24 pm:   

the "の" itself doesn't add formality, the のです(か) adds the formality! I tried to explain that you have to add の for VERBS...
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Matjlav
Posted on Saturday, August 09, 2003 - 08:37 pm:   

when do you have to add の?
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Matjlav
Posted on Saturday, August 09, 2003 - 08:51 pm:   

okay, what I'm saying, is since のですか adds formality, and の is a contraction of it, but の doesn't add formality, I'm meaning to say, what does it do?
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Mr. Anonymous
Posted on Sunday, August 10, 2003 - 05:04 am:   

question 1: When do you have to add の?
-------------------------------------------------
You have to add の between the plain form of the verb and です (「です」を付けたい場合のみ).


-------------------------------------------------
okay, so, the contraction of のです(か), の (hereafter ノ), is an informal contraction, and just that. It's kinda girly, also, i would say.

ノ doesn't really do anything... it's just kinda there, y'know? It's, maybe, decoration or something like that... it just, sheeeit. i dunno. i can't really explain it. it just is=P. It's something i would stray away from as a foreigner learning japanese... I suggest that you stay more on the formal side for your speaking/writing... that is, unless of course you are never ever, ever, ever, never ever gonna have anything to do with japanese people ever. in that case, you can speak however you want;) うひひひ。

さー。ご免ね、説明があんまり出来なくて・・・
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Matjlav
Posted on Sunday, August 10, 2003 - 07:33 am:   

ok... so it does nothing? hehe... so THAAAT'S what I was looking for all this way. *sigh*
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Mr. Anonymous
Posted on Sunday, August 10, 2003 - 10:22 am:   

haha, well... at least you got some grammar:-P
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Matjlav
Posted on Sunday, August 10, 2003 - 10:38 am:   

oh yeah: Why did you say that 独り戦うの? was a contraction of 独り戦うのですか?? Is it sort of "Will you fight while being alone"? But 独り is also an adverb... is it just more formal to say "while being alone"? And what does さー mean, in your message?
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Mr. Anonymous
Posted on Sunday, August 10, 2003 - 12:03 pm:   

cuz 独りで is an adverb, not 独り. 独り戦う is not correct grammar.

さー is just another "decoration"... like, kindof a sigh, in some ways... but... well... i can't explain it... =P stop asking hard questions =P hehe.
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Matjlav
Posted on Sunday, August 10, 2003 - 02:52 pm:   

Err... so does:

さー。ご免ね、説明があんまり出来なくて・・・

mean something like "*sigh* Sorry, but I can't explain it very well..."?
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Mr. Anonymous
Posted on Monday, August 11, 2003 - 05:39 am:   

yeah! that's pretty close! (^o^) it's more like "man... sorry that i can't explain this very well..." but, that's only this situation~~~...

HAHAHA. jeebus, 日本語 is so 場合による (depends on the situation/situation-specific)
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Anonymous
Posted on Sunday, July 18, 2004 - 04:35 pm:   

I was wondering if you could show me how to write my name in Japanese? My name is Tawny.
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Anonymous
Posted on Sunday, July 18, 2004 - 11:52 pm:   

Well, it depends. How exactly do you pronounce Tawny? (Tahnee? Taanigh? Towneigh?)

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